Hana sat down with Hilbrand Westra in Seoul, after participating in one of his workshops for adoptees, for an extended convo that goes deep into feelings. They talk about the systemic approach, core issues that adoptees face, the path to healing, the limitations of conventional talking therapy for some adoptees, working specifically with men, and more. [CW: This episode discusses adoptee suicide] Hilbrand is a Korean adoptee from the Netherlands, well-known in the international adoptee community for his activism and leadership over the past 30 years. After working in human resources management for big corporate firms, he encountered Systemic Work and Constellations, a multi-dimensional form of somatic psychotherapy that originated in Europe, and ultimately became a therapeutic practitioner in this method. He now conducts workshops, trains facilitators, and provides personal coaching, specialising in adoption, foster care, and migration issues. For more information about Hilbrand and the systemic approach, you can visit his website: http://www.adoptionconstellations.com/